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Observations and a study of the impact of Fraternity and Student Housing on Downtown Neighborhoods
The opinions expressed here are not necessarily the opinions of Citizens first. This is just a the location for those stakeholders in the community to express their viewpoints.
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More Photos will be added as incidents avail themselves - Check Back regurlarly
Burning on E. Roanoke Street in Blacksburg
My concern is that burning anything within 50 feet of a house in Blacksburg is against the law--at least that is my understanding.
So, I would hope that the Blacksburg Police Department would do unto this property owner what would be done to any property owner.
I presume that would be a fine of some sort.
I recommend anyone concerned about this situation at 413 E. Roanoke Street contact the Blacksburg Police Department: 961-1150 and request that the law be upheld.
Phyllis Albritton
I am not here to argue
I am not here to argue against the ordinance regarding bonfires. I think that it is valid, and agree that anyone violating it should be dealt with by the Blacksburg PD. However I would like to ask if it has been proven that the Lambda Chi Fraternity members were in fact responsible for burning this chair on their property?
Or could it be that the chair was simply trash that was intended to be removed from the property, and some person(s) passing by one night decided it would be funny to ignite it?
This second possibility is similar to a situation that occurred two years ago, where another fraternity house on Roanoke St. suffered major damage from a fire that originated on a couch, and was intentionally set by "someone passing by". It happened on a Sunday night while multiple people were asleep inside the house. Luckily no one was injured. It was clear that the Fraternity was not responsible for the fire, and they in fact received an outpour of support from the school and community.
My point here is that if pictures of a burnt chair on Lambda Chi Alpha's front lawn are going to be used to justify that they are a contributing nuisance, then all of the facts have to be straight, and presented before these allegations can be made. I didn't read anywhere about the how this event transpired, only that there was something burned on their front lawn. By that reasoning, I could argue that the house fire two years ago was also the fault of the fraternity, simply because I think they are a nuisance.
If there is more proof then I will be happy to concede my argument.
Chill Out
I've been in this town for 30 years and not much has changed re: the students, frats, and their properties. I just have to laugh at people who like to pick on students, but also "like to live in a college town." You can't have it both ways. Quit trying to spread utopia....It isn't gonna happen. And, if it bothers you that much, then move.
Fraternity Houses
I grew up in Blacksburg, lived in town, and watched the residents of the house next door to my home on Clay Street destroy the peace and harmony my parents expected and deserved.
Too bad we didn't have a Citizens First and a Michael Hudson, Virginia Tech would very likely not have gotten by with their "we don't recognize fraternities" and therefore"we don't address any problems associated with organizations we don't recognize" that was expressed by the University during the 60's. Let's be good neighbors to all, young and old alike, but let's expect the same in return. Following laws and ordinances should be expected required behavior.
What's a Neighborhood to do?
Roanoke Street is one of the most beautiful in Blacksburg and yet some of our residents treat it like this. Should we expect that it be allowed to become the ghetto That Houston / Harrell St. has become? Please visit this property, take my photos and find out what explanation the residents could possibly offer. At face value, there is no reason that the neighborhoods of Blacksburg should have to suffer the risks' of a fire, much less the perception that this is acceptable or expected behavior. So if there is an explanation, I like to hear it.
Town Gown Co-Chairs and Members, What has been done and what do we do next?
Is there any reason that Fraternity zoning for this property should not be revoked and down converted to r-2?
I'm sincerely asking you to create logins and post your proposals here.
Re: What's a 'hood to do
We tried to work with Town officials and VT officials, but were basically IGNORED. Unofficial frat houses dot our central neighborhoods and the students get away with anything they want. They even have posted letters on the houses. When any of us try to work on this issue, we are given the run-around until we tire out or are crowned with "whiney" reputations by town staff/police, etc.
I don't think anyone wants to eliminate the students. Just the opposite. But, why should they be able to break all the rules and laws with NO (that means ZERO) consequences. We are not teaching them about accountability. We are teaching them that they can trash the town and our real estate and our quality of life while they are here and that nobody cares how they behave or what they do once they move off campus. That's the reality of the situation; just the facts.
What's a 'hood to do
Lighten up. So young people sometimes make choices with which the neighbors disagree. Most of us in the neighborhood accept such occurences as a small downside of living in so energetic a college town. As for re-zoning them out of existence; they are grandfathered in. Let's not further erode propety rights for everyone in questionable efforts to crush the spirit of a few overly exuberant young people.
Tom Richardson
Spirited behavior or just Plain Dangerious?
I disagree that burning furniture in the front yard should be diminished to the point that it is described as "a choice with which the neighbors disagree" or it should be acceptable occasionally because it is attributed to "spirited" behavior unless by "spirited", you meant drunken. This is already illegal because it dangerous and because it places an undue burden on the property rights of the neighbors. We just had a Fraternity house fire a few doors down 2 years ago. How threatened do you think the neighbors felt about their property rights while that was going on?
As far as property rights go, Where is the regard for the property rights of the rest of the neighborhood? Where is the respect for their safety? Could you clarify the limits to which you would extend property rights? I'm particularly interested in your perception of where those of the Lambda Chi's intersect those of their neighbors and how overlapping interests would be reconciled.
For Example: If I'm trying to sell a home to a newcomer to Blacksburg and they drive passed this mess, can I get a fair asking price next to a property like the Lambda Chi Alpha house? Isn't that a property right?
What would happen if you were to try this at Special Purpose Housing (on campus Greek Housing) at Oak Ln?
These are the reasons I ask the question about updating the zoning ordinance to enable the revocation "fraternity Zoning" in off campus neighborhoods if those properties place an undue demand neighboring properties with nuisance behaviors.
Mike Hudson
I graduated from VT 8 years
I graduated from VT 8 years ago, and I've been a resident of Blacksburg ever since, and I would like to comment.
First I would like to say that I don't think that amending the zoning ordinance to "eliminate" fraternities from off campus neighborhoods is a viable solution.
Not only does that infringe on the rights of those property owners by attempting to throw out a grandfathered clause for nonconforming special use structures, but it will also cause a deeper rift between the student body and the community, instead of bringing them closer together.
The Town Code defines the term nuisance in a way that is open to a lot of interpretation. As a Blacksburg citizen, it is very easy for me to claim that a Virginia Tech Football tailgate party at my neighbor's private residence "obstructs and interferes with the reasonable or comfortable use of my private property", (due to excessive noise, a bonfire, or the even the smell made because they are grilling a particular food that I don't like), and is therefore a nuisance to me and my family. So does that mean that Blacksburg should amend it's town code to outlaw off-campus football tailgates? Of course not. If it bothered me that much, I would ask my neighbor to calm it down, because various behaviors during that tailgate were bothering me. Otherwise I would file a complaint with the Blacksburg Police, and make sure they did something about it.
We need to be realistic here. Blacksburg is a town with a large college student population. College students are going to party, whether they are in fraternities, or not, and there is no way around that. I'm not justifying their behavior if they get out of hand, but trying to make laws to limit where they live or how they can act isn't going to stop them from partying.
The students need to be mindful of how their actions affect those around them, and if they're not, then they need to be held accountable, just like any other neighbor would be held accountable.
If a fraternity (or group of unaffiliated students in an apartment) is being too loud, then file a noise complaint. I don't necessarily agree with Blacksburg's noise violation policy, but I do think that once a summons is issued, it works as a good deterrent. The threat of $500-$1000 for subsequent violations is something for a college student to seriously consider. I personally know people who have received them, and how it affected their future decision making.
If a house in the neighborhood looks like a dump, the Town has the means to fix it by fining those who occupy the house, or by cleaning it up a the resident's expense. The fraternity houses are some of the nicest buildings in town. Most of the time I drive by a fraternity house, it seems to be well kept. But I'm sure there are times when things get messy, and if someone gets on their case about keeping the place clean and presentable, then they will do so. If you are really worried about the "ghetto look" having an affect on your property value, then I suggest focusing more on the unaffiliated rental properties that make up much of Roanoke St. and other downtown neighborhoods. I know of several that look far worse than any fraternity house on a consistent basis.
If something else bothers you about a Fraternity, like the instance above where Lambda Chi allegedly burned a chair in their front yard, then file a complaint with the University's Office of Fraternity and Sorority Life in addition to the police. They are there to oversee the Fraternities, and they will take the corrective action needed.
Also, if there are other concerns regarding threats to property owners' rights in these downtown neighborhoods, then I would recommend a little more attention be paid to the many students who use neighborhoods like Roanoke St. and Progress St. as a route to walk to and from the bars in downtown Blacksburg, because many of them have little regard for the properties they pass by.
One final note regarding the house fire from two years ago:
Do you really believe that somehow the fraternity was responsible for how "threatened" the neighbors felt about their property rights? A random person decided to torch a couch on the front porch of that house. It was an arson that could have happened to any house on the street. How was the fraternity responsible? That should not have been used as an example to justify a claim that fraternities "threaten" property rights of their neighbors.
C.F. - Blacksburg
re:Spirited behavior or just Plain Dangerious?
I can appreciate the fact that you and/or your neighbors felt their property rights were impacted by the fire at 303 East Roanoke..
But, I would counter that those most impacted were the residents of the home that was destroyed by the fire.
Keep in mind; it is an unsolved arson case and not a result of thier own "drunken behavior".
Over $300,000 was spent, with a local Blacksburg contractor, to remodel the home to the exacting specifications laid out by the Town's Historic Review Board.
I would challenge you to find a better constructed or more historical accurate home on that or any block of Roanoke Street.
Regards-
Tom Hyde
re:Spirited behavior or just Plain Dangerious?
There is no need to challenge me, I agree with and believe everything you point out. The Zeta Psi's deserve to be commended for their work on their house, in the Wong park last year, and along Roanoke Street for a few years running I have worked along side and thanked many of them personally for their effort and leadership. They stand out as good examples on Roanoke St.
Mike Hudson
Some Perspective
Hello All
I would like to post a few comments to try to see some middle ground. I am a faculty member and was a fraternity member when I was in college. I am also a resident. In the past, I have lived across the street from a fraternity and next door to some "unrecognized fraternities". I have seen the spectrum of good and bad from several perspectives.
First off, if a fraternity or any other individual is involved in illegal behavior (destruction of property, illegal burning, excessive noise, or worse), the police should be called and directed to the incident at hand and the police should deal with it.
There has always been a mix of residencies, student housing and fraternities in the downtown neighborhoods. I certainly hope that people buying property are fully aware of the characteristics of the neighborhood when they buy. In many cases, a fraternity house or other student housing has stood on a particular parcel for a very long time. If a person buys a house and turns it into a student housing project, the neighbors should be concerned about the impacts. However, to buy property next to existing student housing and then to complain about the students living next door seems kooky to me since they knew what they were buying into.
There is also a general characterization of all fraternities being animal houses. That is not true for all fraternities. I am the advisor of a fraternity that does hundreds of hours of volunteer work in town, raises thousands of dollars for charity, gets good grades and is well regarded by the university and their neighbors in town. I would not mind these young men living next to me.
I don't like the idea of revocation of zoning. What would be the level that would demand this is one issue. The second issue is that students typically have no voice in local politics. They don't vote locally and have no representation in local government. My fraternity has a hotel being built next to it. I can envision the owner going to town council and "complain" about the fraternity next to it and how it is ruining his business and then the town revoking the zoning for our house without the fraternity being able to have a voice.
Now, the university does have oversight of fraternities. I have worked with the people in the Greek Life office and they are good and don't let the fraternities off. There is a lot of pressure on them to behave because of past stereotypes and generally, they do. I can't say the same for the non-Greek student population. Today's fraternities are supposed to be a way to transition youths into adult men that make reasonable decisions and contribute to society. Again, some fraternities are good and some are not.
Finally, thank you all for posting. I hope we can have a day when fraternities are an asset to a neighborhood and not viewed as a "ghetto".
Thank you, M Berg
Re. Some Perspective
Hi M Berg,
Thank for offering us the benefit of your experiences. You and I seem to agree on when the Police should be called. I too was a fraternity member when I was in school and took advantage of that time as a character building as well as a social experience. I would like to reassert that the focus here is not intended to single out fraternities at all.
The scope is intended to include any property in a Downtown Neighborhood whose residents are overseen in any form by Asst. Town Manager Steve Ross and Dr. Edward Spencer - Associate Vice President for Student Affairs. They are the Co-Chairs of the Town/Gown Community Relations Committee.
When you say "There has always been a mix of residencies, student housing and fraternities in the downtown neighborhoods. I certainly hope that people buying property are fully aware of the characteristics of the neighborhood when they buy."
I would ask you to reconsider. While the Fraternities that are there have been there for some time. This unintentionally masks the fact that Tech has only allowed students to live off campus since the mid 70's. While some readers may find that this is well before they were born, I and many other do not. So, just to clarify, there is nothing to substantiate a "It has been this way since time began argument although it might have been that way as long as ether of the Co-Chairs has been in Blacksburg and it's certainly been that way as long as any student has been here.
My home is Williamsburg, a place where 30 years is a drop in the bucket and where the town holds the preservation of a high quality of character in it's historic neighborhoods in high regard and works together with William & Mary to preserve them. My point is that, from my perspective, what you are saying can be interpreted with varying degrees of relativity, and proposes no solution for the nuisances one regularly encounters in the Downtown neighborhoods.
The Downtown Planning Sector of the 2046 Comp plan does:
O. The future of Greek housing in the area will be limited, as no new Greek housing uses are allowed off-campus by right. As fraternity and sorority uses cease along Roanoke Street and throughout Town or relocate onto campus, these non-conforming structures should be converted either to single family or small-scale commercial uses.
Available here: http://www.blacksburg.gov/comp_plan/update/pdf/Downtown--TF%20Final.pdf
Tidbits:
A real estate agent is not permitted to comment on the demographics of an area, street, or neighborhood when showing property to clients. That being said, I do feel sorry for the family that purchased property on or near Roanoke Street and did not realize the environment they were moving into.
Property values are the theme to this debate as well as the box store. My thoughts on this issue are as follows. The gains we all have experienced would be for not without the University. The fact is Blacksburg is now considered a college town not just by the current residents but by the nation. This was not the case when you moved here Mr. Hudson. I understand your frustration to change; I concede that you are entitled to your frustration. But without the University and everything that comes with it the most expensive home on the market today probably would not be above 300K. See there is some good from this bad you speak of; how much is tolerable depends on the individual. If I respect my neighbors; and the students want to feel that they are respected by the community, they will return the favor in kind.
A $300 dollar first offense fine for a noise violation is criminal and I will do my best to see that it is repealed. If this were any other town or city the police would not have that type of authority without being able to prove the disturbance by technology. Without decibel readers personal opinion does not hold up for this type of monetary levy on anyone. Perhaps Christmas carolers should all receive noise violations; they could be considered noise to someone. -Greg
"A real estate agent is not
"A real estate agent is not permitted to comment on the demographics of an area, street, or neighborhood when showing property to clients. That being said, I do feel sorry for the family that purchased property on or near Roanoke Street and did not realize the environment they were moving into."
I find it extremely difficult to believe anyone could move onto Roanoke St. and not know that it is occupied by students and several fraternities. The houses have large Greek letters on the front of them. I'd say that's pretty difficult to miss whether they were explicitly told about it or not. -Terance
Does anyone communicate with their neighbors anymore?
I would be willing to speculate that if the neighbors approached the "fraternity" in question in the beginning this might not have happened. If you treat people like kids and "frat" (it is Fraternity) boys they will act accordingly. Yes, I am sure seeing a fire in your neighbors yard might be concerning and the substance that was burning resembles a "ghetto" as mentioned above. However, if they want to have a bonfire on their property it is their right!
The Greek system does so much for this community without recognition it is sickening. They comprise approximately 90% of the student leaders in other organizations across campus. They amass the majority of the "voluntary" community service hours the University documents. They also have given the most in terms of monetary contribution to the University even though they amounted to 18% of the student population while they attended Virginia Tech. Yet, they are still perceived as animals.
The community continues to gouge the students with excessive fines from noise violations which borders on criminal. There are no matrices the officers are confined to. I have not seen a decibel reader. Instead of driving, the students walk back to their homes from downtown and the police arrest them for being drunk in public. Maybe the students should get in their cars and drive like the responsible residents do after their bottles of wine from Poor Billy’s. If the community embraces the economic driving force (the students) there will be a drastic climate change in the attitudes of both the students and residents.
What will continue to happen? The “complaining” individuals will stay the course, more stringent laws will be passed that take away freedoms, and there will be a backlash from the students. All of this could be avoided if individuals walked over, shook a hand, introduced themselves and befriended someone. That sounds awful! Actually having to talk to someone…
-Greg
Re. Does anyone communicate with their neighbors anymore?
I can't imagine why I would ever walk up to any neighbor and have to ask "could you please not burn furniture in your yard, tonight, this month, this semester, or ever. The proposition boarders a step or two beyond reason for me. If they represent 90% of the student leadership, and they are burning furniture in their front yard, what am I left to think of those that are not leaders?
As far as bonfire being a "right", Here's the town code:
Section 17-301. Bonfires.
(a) No person shall kindle or maintain any bonfire or authorize any such fire to be kindled or maintained on any private land, unless the location is not less than fifty (50) feet from any structure and adequate provision is made to prevent fire from spreading to within fifty (50) feet of any structure.
(b) Bonfires shall be constantly attended by a competent person until such fires are extinguished. This person shall have a garden hose connected to the water supply or other fire extinguishing equipment readily available for use.
(c) The fire chief may prohibit any or all bonfires when atmospheric conditions or local circumstances make such fires hazardous.
(d) Here, "bonfire" shall mean a campfire or other fires that are used solely for recreational purposes, for ceremonial occasions, for outdoor noncommercial preparation of food, and for warming of outdoor workers, and that are not fueled by any rubber tires, asphaltic materials, crankcase oil, impregnated wood or other rubber or petroleum based materials, hazardous waste, or hazardous waste containers.
Since the upholstery and padding used in furniture are Petroleum products and release hazardous, if not toxic fumes when burned; I would assert that the fire pictured would not meet the permitted exceptions.
This forum is entitled - "Observations and a study of the impact of Fraternity and Student Housing on Downtown Neighborhoods" and fraternities are not going to be singled out. They just happened to be first. As I asserted, the slide show and reports will continue to be updated (with both types)
I'm sure that you are correct about the contributions of the Greeks with regard to leadership, volunteer hours, monetary contribution and Perception. That Perception is driven by what I/we experience every day as a residents of a Downtown Neighborhoods, as a person just driving down Roanoke St or as a pedestrian walking a dog or pushing a stroller. I do not benefit frequently enough from the items you cite to out weigh the damage done by the nuisances created by these properties.
Any Citizen regardless of who they live next to has the right not to be subject to Nuisances as defined by Town Code. Clarified here:
Section 14-301. Definition.
Nuisance: The doing of any act or the omission to perform any duty, or the permitting of any condition or thing to exist that endangers life or health, obstructs or interferes with the reasonable or comfortable use of public or private property, tends to depreciate the value of the property of others, or in any way renders other persons insecure in the life or the use of property. Whenever the term nuisance is used, it shall be deemed to mean a public nuisance.
(Ord. No. 1225, § 8, 8-10-99)
You logic seems to be founded on the premise that "If your neighbors expect civility, they must ask for it". Mine expectations are derived from what is already illegal because history had demonstrated the necessity of a law to prevent it when it can and punish it when it cannot.
It is not your neighbors responsibility to ask you not to break the law. It is yours to familiarize yourself with them when you move into a new community and to abide. Exceptions to the law are not your neighbors to give. It would be a mistake and a miscarriage of justice to place the onus of these problems problem on the guy who has to go to work in the morning or the Mom who can't get her kids to sleep because of the noise violation going on 1/2 a block away.
The Fines for Noise Violations were raised because the problem became unmanageable and were not acting as sufficient a deterrent. Measuring with decibel meters has been rejected because of "Calibration problems" and expense, among other reasons according to the BBPD.
Instead of drinking and driving, I recommend just drinking responsibly.
As far as walking over and shaking your hand, I will, but this is not the responsibility of people just trying to enjoy the use of their own home nor should this become incumbent upon them. And as far as these 3 photos go, No Lambda Chi Alpha has ever knocked on my door and asked if I mind if their property diminishes the quality of life and appearance of my neighborhood 9 months out of the year.
What is really goinng on here?
Well sir, you are certainly wound up tight about what everyone agrees was an unplesant occurance and ill considered behavior. Your rather lengthy refutaions of any deviation from your point of view, supported by quations of numerious legal codes has failed to convince me this single event was so dire and theatning to our health and safety as to merit throwing out grandfatherd property rights.
Yes, someone managed to get language in the most recent Comprehensive Plan which could be taken to suggest doing that is desirable. The problem is that action would take away a basic protection all property owners have under law.
In a town which frequently ammends its zoning ordinances ( they are reviewed anually ) the loss of grandfather protections would be a property rights disaster.
And, there are people with their own agendas who would like nothing better than to be able to use the never ending stacks of town ordinances to usurp other peoples properties and put them to their own selfish use.
Tom Richardson
re. What is really goinng on here?
Tom,
I'm really not wound up tight at all. I'm looking for compromise, open to suggestion and available for conversation.
In order to give each of the other Authors work the consideration it deserves, I have made counterpoints where I thought they were warranted and cited Town code and the comp. plan to provide the basis of my arguments.
I'm sorry if I led you to believe this was about a single event. It's about the ongoing nuisances in Downtown neighborhoods. I'll add more photos soon from a variety of property types.
Property Rights sees to be a recurring theme for many of the Authors and Zoning ordinances are what every municipality in Virginia use to regulate them. Updating these ordinances as new challenges present themselves, to protect communities from neglect or to provide vision for enforceable guidelines to bring a Comprehensive Plan to fruition insures all of our property rights. I believe this is the "Due Process of Law" the 5'th Amendment recognizes and insures. It does not guarantee the right to use our property in a manor that causes a disservice to our neighbors. But that's a whole different blog.
The potential for disaster of poorly guided ordinances definitely exist and inevitably affect property rights; that's exactly why we can change them.
What is really going on here?
An earlier poster suggested that Roanoke Street is one of the most attractive streets in Blacksburg..
Just curious,which house do you think is most representative of historic Blacksburg?
Dear sir, This is a quote
Dear sir,
This is a quote from your text:
"But, why should they [the students we are speaking of] be able to break all the rules and laws with NO (that means ZERO) consequences. We are not teaching them about accountability. We are teaching them that they can trash the town and our real estate and our quality of life while they are here and that nobody cares how they behave or what they do once they move off campus. That's the reality of the situation; just the facts."
Before claiming that there have been "NO consequences", my suggestion is to request documentation of the responses that have made by the local police department. How many noise citations have been issued? How many arrests? Etc? While you state the "facts" are that there are "zero consequences" for "break[ing] all the rules and laws", I think that you will find that the town of Blacksburg and the Virginia Tech Campus has responded with consequences for illegal behavior.
I would like to give you credit for your research. The town ordinance you posted states that a bonfire must be at least 50 feet from a structure, while the pictures you posted indicate that the fire was closer to 30 feet from the nearest structure. It does appear that this action deserved a ticket. Nonetheless, it is too bad that you feel that these nuisances you experience outweigh the benefits of local Greek organizations. Many people think that there are immeasurable benefits for the entire local community (such as the small park existing just down the street from your home that was built by a local fraternity). You certainly benefit in many ways even if you do not realize it. As previously stated, hundreds of volunteer hours are put into your community, but it seems that you are unaware of the positive implications of this. Perhaps you should speak with some of the direct recipients of Greek philanthropies if you would really like some insights. When I was a student on Roanoke street, our philanthropy was to help the blind. I can only hope that this helped one more person to actually see your posting in the first place...
Sincerely,
Scott
Re: Dear sir, This is a quote
Scott,
I think you have accidentally mis attributed the quote to me. That was posted by someone else anonymously. All of my contributions show "Submitted by michaelhudson" at the top.
I cannot make the claim that there have been no consequences, I have witnessed a few myself.I can tell you that the most recent numbers I could find on Blacksburgs Police closure rate are these:
FY 1995/96 - 46%
FY 1996/97 - 48%
FY 1997/98 - 41%
FY 1998/1999 - 45%
FY 1999/2000 - 49%
FY 2000/2001 - 44%
FY 2001/2002 - 39%
FY 2002/2003 - 40%
FY 2003/2004 - 48%
FY 2004/2005 - 40%
FY 2005/2006 -33%
Source - www.blacksburg.gov/police/crime/stats.php
I could not find the raw data for the number of noise complaints/summonses or the specific closure rate for violations of that ordinance, so I'll get back to you on that.
But, if the closure rate for all crimes is typical of the noise ordinance, and you have a neighbor that is a chronic offender, I think it's easy to see how that community members experience could be interpreted as though these violation are going on "without consequence". I have several neighbors relate this senerio. I have even had the police tell me that some student have been using scanners to be able to tell when officer were being dispatched, quieting down and bringing crowds inside until they left and then resuming the noise violations after the officers left or were deployed elsewhere.
As far as " nuisances outweighing benefits” what I said was that
“I'm sure that you are correct about the contributions of the Greeks with regard to leadership, volunteer hours, monetary contribution and Perception. That Perception is driven by what I/we experience every day as a residents of a Downtown Neighborhoods, as a person just driving down Roanoke St or as a pedestrian walking a dog or pushing a stroller. I do not benefit frequently enough from the items you cite to out weigh the damage done by the nuisances created by these properties.”
I don’t understand the reluctance and failure to meet the call of the minimum standards for civil behavior the Town and the State have laid out in ordinances and other code accompanied by the legitimate claim that “We are doing great things elsewhere”.
Well, look at what your doing here please. It’s often not legal and frequently the residuals are a long term and perpetually reoccurring dis-service.
Thank You for your work in the park. Which park is it? I’d be glad to include a story of your good works for the indigenous population of Blacksburg the next time your group is working there. Seriously. I have no venom for anyone willing to work on a solution.
Mike Hudson
I appreciate you
Let me just add to what Scott has said that he fraternity house where that chair burning incident took place underwent a major front facade and interior renovation just a few years ago at a time when properties on Roanoke street had started looking really seedy. Other improvemets on the street soon followed. Even if grandfathering did not protect their use of their house as a fraternety, such leadership would in my opinion earn them the right to be in our neighborhood.
I also think we would be wise to listen to what the students are trying to tell us about their perceptions of noise ordinence enforcement. I know that our police department is under maned at present, and can imagine, due to that, at least some of the police actions might not have been carried out as compassionately as they could have been. The students need to understand that the lot of a police officer in a college town is not an easy one.
Just for the record I have not been a member of a fraternety, but I have lived one block from Roanoke Street for the past thirty years.
Tom Richardson
While it may not seem right,
While it may not seem right, Blacksburg's citizens have to reach out to those who live in the area. I was in a fraternity while I attended Virginia Tech and the Methodist church reached out to us. We have grown close with their pastor and church, and hence we try to find a viable solution to many of the issues we face.
I held a position in the fraternity that kept us close with the town. Only a few members of the community actively reached out to us. That being said, we knocked on doors, and spend countless hours trying to develop community service programs with the local residents. Many times we were met with skepticism and little willingness to work with us. The attitude that many locals have developed toward students and Greek members encourages resistance.
This is their temporary home, a place that lets them be free from the restrictions of parents, however they should not be granted a free-to-run pass. But because this is such a transitioning stage in so many young people's lives, those who live in the area must be able to work with these young adults. Please do not forget that these students bring an extremely large amount of money to the area. And embracing them with the right attitude, will encourage a willingness to help develop the community into a better place.
I know I didn't want to live in a crime-ridden area, full of trash, obnoxious drunk people, and threat of fires. On numerous occasions we cleaned the house, left leaves, branches and other debris on the side ready for the semi-annual clean up, and were passed by because the trash collectors said there were cars in the way. We did our part and were left out to dry. The leaves, branches and debris sat there for a month or two, looking terrible until one of use could find time to clean it up.
Solution:
More communication. You can not expect students to comply with your wishes without letting them know what you expect. On the other side of that, you have to relax, be open to the fact that you are not living in ordinary suburban town. You are living in Blacksburg, many of you live off of streets where there is a dense population of college students. Don't work with them, and you will find more resistance.
It is similar to living in one of the apartment complexes. We do not have people complaining about living in Hunter's Ridge, the Village, etc. Why? Because most of you decided you did not want to live in the middle of college students. When VT expands its student population, housing must expand also.
Please do not take this as a rant against Blacksburg. I loved living there and many of the people I worked with couldn't have been nicer. I look forward to returning to Blacksburg, maybe one day to live, but the town must remain flexible.
-Brandon